Rugby Africa President, Herbert Mensah on Tuesday, June 13, was guest at the Bloomberg New Economy GateWay Africa forum in Morocco where he spoke on a wide ranging issues bordering on ''The future of sports in Africa and what it means for economic development in Africa with solid local investment.''

Herbert anchored his submissions on his mantra that sports is big business everywhere else in the world and can be so also in Africa if we model ourselves and present ourselves as such to the global world by encouraging local investment in sports.

He pointed out that after all, the best athletes in the world are originally from Africa, and it is therefore not for lack of talent in Africa but the lack of investment.

Herbert in calling for a massive mindset shift in believing that it is possible, called on everyone, including African governments and corporate world to invest more in sports.

He said the major mindset change is critical in the running of sports in Africa because at the end of the day, like in everything else, it is all about the money.

He said that is the direction he and his team are taking Rugby, which he described as the second biggest sport in the world, and expressed the desire that all other sports in Africa will pursue that trajectory.

Below are excerpts of Herbert Mensah’s discussions with Bloomberg's Tim O'Brien, Senior Executive Editor, Bloomberg Opinion.

Tim O'Brien (TO): Sports is obviously big business elsewhere in the world, can it be a big business in Africa?

Herbert Mensah (HM): I think so, it’s very much my mantra. I took office two-and-half months ago, and off the back of the fact that I believe sport is big business. We need to model ourselves, present ourselves to the global the world. After all the best athletes in the world invariably come from Africa. You’ll find them in different nationalities these days, whether they are playing for the national teams in Europe, or you see them in NBA finals, the potential in Africa is absolutely massive, so I do believe so.

TO: But they are often extracted from Africa, aren’t they, the athletes, and in some way it’s a kind of oil, or other commodities such as a precious natural resource and is being deployed elsewhere, is it one of the challenges here for the continent and the continent that is very diverse, many different countries inside of it (Africa)? How do you retain that particular resource so it benefits both financially and culturally, can grow at home?

HM: I think you're absolutely right. I think the opportunities.... I was speaking recently to a Minister of Sport in a Southern African country, and she was espousing exactly the same, that economically, at a certain point where that kind of talent, you will have sportsmen having to move to other continents, to other countries in order to see their real worth. And I think that's part of the challenge that we have here is, is to encourage investment back on our continent where you have many, if we’re talking rugby terms, there’s this extraordinary player called The Beast, who is from Zimbabwe and played in the World Cup and is larger than life, and had to leave Zimbabwe to go through to South Africa to show his greatness. And we have many, up in North Africa who go across to France to play, West Africa where I come from. I played rugby in England for Saracens. So people go out of their home territories and I think the key is to bring the investments back into Africa and for the rest of the world to understand that you can actually grow here, develop here and the market is global rather than linked into Europe or America.

TO: So let’s talk about some of the hurdles around bringing some of the investments back to Africa. We have the historical legacy, it’s a mix of both expropriation, racism, a lack of interest, elitism etc etc, so there is the historical legacy to overcome, the roots of which is still present, and then there is the current reality, investors have other options, investors may feel that they have both regions and sports that are more profitable investments. So from where you sit, what has to happen structurally and culturally for this to take off here?

HM: I think Tim, you are absolutely right. Every knife is double-edged. And we look at the first part of what you said it’s absolutely true that there is a historical relationship that Africa has with the global world where it’s easier to take products rather than to invest; to create situations and models where it’s not necessarily in the interest of Africa and we have to change that. I think what I’m trying to do in my part of my period is asking for a major mindset change, a shift, so when I speak to my colleagues at World Rugby I’m saying you need to change the way you look at us. I once came from the world of football and we were all involved in petitioning FIFA and global bodies to give Africa more chance rather than say you are not good enough, when you get good enough we will give you the chance. Invest in us today. We saw what happened in Qatar with this great country of Morocco and Cameroun and Ghana and the likes. Morocco certainly set the world on fire for people to understand that there are really players, their qualities are borne out of where they come from as opposed to elsewhere. If you have that investment and you can look at (if it is football) Hakimi (Achraf Hakimi Mouh of Morocco and Paris Saint-Germain), and you look at the goalkeeper and the rest, we have the same in rugby. Maro Itoji today is playing for England and he is recognised as one of the best in that field. We need the mindset…

TO: Why don’t the Maro Itojis of the world or The Beast, why don’t both of them stay in Africa, what’s preventing young athletes from finding a home in the sport, whether it’s rugby, whether it’s football and of course many young African athletes go overseas for basketball and other US-centric sports?

HM: I think at the end of the day it’s all about money. The money that is invested is taken along, unfortunately, like everything. The money that’s invested, players and families and people have a choice as to how they see the next 10, 20, 30 years of their life especially sports that you have a shorter lifespan. We need to get the global bodies, if it’s my sport, rugby, if it’s others and they’ve all their own missions, to invest more. But we as well within Africa, need to re-examine ourselves – policies and sports and education. Look, I had the honour of meeting an extraordinary gentleman yesterday, here, and that was the Minister of Youth and Sports here in Morocco, and listening to his rollout plan, which involves education and sports, was something to behold…

TO: And you’ve told me that there are more than 50 countries in Africa and you have a very different experience every time you visit each one of them in terms of the kind of reception you get, the kind of collaboration you get. What makes Morocco or any other country that you see as a successful collaborator, successful?

HM: Well, I think the present and future is really a marriage between governments where there is a responsibility, If you take the values that rugby has, it has, I would say better values than many other sports in terms of bringing up young people and letting them understand the values of respect, of teamwork, of collaboration, of patience, of other things like that. So, the marriage with governments first and foremost. And we need African governments to also invest in the games. We have some, in my own country I have an extraordinary president and we’re building a first, purpose-built rugby stadium, it might seem (a) big deal but it is… (Rwanda, notably has done the same?) He is championing the development of sports…

TO: Those are governments that are populated by people with real expertise, and a focus on a partnership that achieves mutual goals, right, both for the sport and for the locality?

HM: Absolutely, you’re right. I think there's also a realisation that look, if you got young people involved in sports, then they're going to get up to mischief. I think it doesn't matter how hard things are economically, (Rugby makes you better?)... at least it does i think, very much so.

TO: You know from the outside, you know we've talked about this idea of money returning to the base, and that's true of any business in any locality - to what extent is wealth and value extracted, to what extent does it remain behind and create a full blooded, robust local ecosystem. Can sport ever be a full blown economic development tool in the way that other entertainment industries are, or other types of industries are in terms of not just being episodic? You know, we have a great debate in the United States about big stadiums that are built with taxpayer funds, and then they sort of become a one offs and don't have longevity in terms of economic growth. Do you think that sports is a long term economic development tool in Africa?

HM: I think so, very much so. I think you just need to drive through Africa as diverse as it is culturally and in every other way, and there'll be a young kid with a ball of some sorts, more so than you will have anywhere else. It becomes very much part and parcel and I think that when we look at development models, we should really look at the lifestyle and culture of the people, what they do and sport very much is one. Just digressing a little bit I was so proud recently in the Champions League final not only to see the plethora of Africans there but to see Burna Boy as the main musician afterwards and everybody going up to them. So we do have musicians if we move laterally who are global today, who have great pride in being Africans and coming back home. We need to press that button of investment that says, not only do give opportunity to Africans in Africa, but then you have other industries that will build up from it, other growth areas that will bring up the others from it, which will benefit everybody at the end of the day.

TO: You know, there's been a number of demographic studies that already indicate that by 2100, 40% of the world's population will be in Africa. Do you think that institutionally, Africans have enough voice commensurate with both their future potential and the present realities of what's on the ground here, specifically in sports?

HM: No, I don't. I think there are battles within battles, the battle of playing sports. I've always said that as a business person you need to win off the field in order to win on the field. So, when I get involved in any form of sports development, it’s getting in right off the field. And in this case, is taking on governments, is taking on our global bodies, is seeking greater equity. I mean, the fact that Africa for example, with 50 odd countries and 30 something all affiliated to rugby here, Africa have two votes at World Rugby when individual developed countries have three apiece, it means that you can't force them to equity in terms of investment, in terms of whatever, you have to find different means of getting there. So, we need to fight battles off the field not only with global bodies and with our governments, with lending agencies. We’re going to the World Cup in France this year, which is the second biggest sporting event in the world after the FiFA World Cup football, Rugby is the second biggest sport in the world…

TO: I did not know that till we had breakfast this morning. I had other biases, my ignorance...

HM: And the fact that if you take in Europe and in the West rugby is played mainly amongst the elite and better educated and the custodians of capital in business and money, I see a few smiling faces, I know they are rugby players... If I see them limping off, it’s because they’re rugby players, I know. I'll definitely know. So surely since they can throw so much capital they shouldn't be so difficult as they look to invest in Africa and bring about change.

TO: There are some practical things investors will look for. For example, any sport rides on the back of a strong broadcasting presence, and ability for people to watch a sport on television. It's as important in partnership as government or capital or talent. That is another hurdle the continent as a whole has to overcome isn't it, just building out an accessible, affordable broadcasting network?

HM: No, you're absolutely right. The dogged history which I don't like going back to, the fact of who are we and where we came from is a reality because we don't have one Sky TV that covers the whole continent of Africa. Francophone Africa thinks in one way, Anglophone Africa thinks in one way, and North Africa also operates differently, and so when you start looking at continental models, that becomes an issue. One of the things that we're doing in coming into power is looking first at a complete constitutional review, to empower us to move forward, checking our own internal governance systems. But then it's also looking and saying we should need to split Africa – East, West, North, South, it's far easier to raise money when you're looking, say, in West Africa there are 400 or 450 odd million people…

TO: West Africa alone is a bigger market than the United States, potentially.

HM: Absolutely, so how do we then make that work into one model? How do we then look at the East African bloc, who are the premiers of rugby, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Uganda and the likes? How do we deal up here with North Africa as a separate entity? And I think when it is we start doing that then we can start broaching the issue of TV, TV rights and the rest, which is so easy in Europe and America, to sign off because you've got one carrier. Here we've been dealing with, and we've signed partnerships with APO and I'm very happy about that because they are a continental re-broadcaster of news. But it is very much we stream a lot of the things and we’re taking a slightly different approach. You then come back to governments and state broadcasters and what it is they can put out… But the commercial value of where they are is not quite there but then, there is the opportunity for the people with money to see that opportunity to look medium to long term.

TO: Herbert Mensah, thank you for joining us this morning.

HM: Thank you very much, Tim.